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Joined: 22 Mar 2008 Posts: 59 Location: The Final Frontier
Posted: Tue Apr 22, 2008 8:55 pm Post subject:
Read your post Kri. Does that mean I am obligated to edit my post? Because chronologically it makes no sense. (Ive never seen a backpost before lol)
In addition, this counts for both you Raven and Kri: perhaps i did not make this clear, and this is my fault, but Jaren is excellent at hiding his Force signature. (If Jaren could not hide his signature from Jedi at the level of Raven he'd be screwed). Unless for very powerful Jedi such as Venom, normal Jedi would not be able to detect the Force within him unless he uses the Force for specific purposes. Kri's knowledge of Jaren's Force sensitivity is completely out of the question: he is not even a Jedi. Jaren did not use any Force powers in the bar fight.
I know Im kind of shooting you down, but I dont know if its totally possible for a "backpost". Id rather you wait until Jaren leaves and talk to Tylana; there you would be able to form a group with her.
Actually, it would be probably best if Kri formed up with Jaren; and Raven with Tylana. Therefore, the two groups would both have Jedi. So I say its best if Kri would introduce himself, lets say, later to Jaren, so he forms up with him. Raven can stay in the bar and perhaps talk to Tylana. Either way, Jaren really cant be held up at the bar too long because he needs to interrogate Dusty. Engaging in long dialogue with Kri is not exactly the most ideal thing to do atm. Remember the plot: TWO groups are supposed to form. If everyone meets up now, it will be difficult to keep each other from knowing what exactly is going on.
So lets say, we have Jaren walk away with Dusty, brings him into an alley, and Kri approaches him while hes interrogating Dusty. Kri can even threaten him with his weapon if he likes, so in essence Jaren would almost be obligated to tell him what is going on. You wont have to wait too long...probably two or three more posts will be exchanged with Tylana before Jaren leaves. And remember, unless Kri sees Jaren use the Force or his lightsaber, he will not know he is a Jedi. Jaren keeps his Jedi identity under wraps because he has Dark Jedi after him.
As for Raven and Tylana, I'm sure they have something else in mind.
I have spoken to Kri about this as I was confused myself, hence the reason I've been holding off on my next post. It really wouldn't be ideal for any of us to edit our posts. Kri, I'm still not 100% sure what you have in mind with regard to your role in H&S, perhaps you could let us know so we can plan around your idea?
At the moment both Jaren and Tylana are outside the cantina, with Dusty. It really would make no sense for them to go back inside. Besides, they wouldn't exactly get a warm welcome from the proprietor.
As far as Tylana and Raven's meeting, I've been talking to Devall's player through IM, and we have been discussing the possibility of having Devall's right hand man involved, who has been sent to Coronet to keep an eye on their progress. This might give them an excuse to run into each other, perhaps because of an altercation between Tylana, Kellen and Bern. It also gives his player an opportunity to RP more extensively, instead of having to wait for the story to come to him.
I agree with Jaren that it is best to have two separate teams, and not to have them all familiar with each other before we get into the grittier stuff. _________________
Just for reference, Raven is a very powerful force user.
He is only ranked a knight because the Jedi refused to give him any higher because of his apt towards the darkside. He is very skilled in the force and is easily on par with any Sith lord or Jedi master. Just clearing it up that Raven is much stronger than a Knight but he cares not for his title.
The reason I bring that up is because you said the level of Raven.... >.> I dunno if I need to change my title or what but Raven is far from weak. Raven and Venom are pretty much equals. We discussed it already, Raven has him beat with a lightsaber and venom has him beat with the force.
Not being a douche or anything but I don't want people to think he is weak and then when I RP him stronger than they think they will think it is powerplaying.
So no the question is posed, can I keep the title Dark Jedi Knight and expect people not to get confused or give myself the title of Master as to stop any confusion of power?
Also, Jaren, idea=great. _________________ Raven Dark Jedi Knight
Joined: 28 Dec 2007 Posts: 99 Location: Illinois, USA
Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2008 5:10 am Post subject:
*sighs* I can't do anything the right way. I've just screwed the whole thing up.
Ignore my post please; maybe I should delete it. I guess my whole idea in H&S was messed up from the get-go. I should really think these things through better before I open my trap. You guys don't deserve to put up with me like I make you do.
I really am very heartfully sorry. _________________
You didn't mess anything up at all! It is just one post, and easily changed. Do not worry about it or for one moment think you don't deserve to be involved, that is not at all true.
We were just trying to understand what it was you wanted to do. If you like Jaren's suggestion we could go that route. I certainly think it is a good idea.
Do not beat yourself up about it. A simple mistake or a miscalculation isn't the end of the world. You have as much right as any of us to be here and we're lucky to have you. _________________
Joined: 28 Dec 2007 Posts: 99 Location: Illinois, USA
Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2008 5:29 am Post subject:
Sorry, I've had a little time to cool down now. Please excuse my last, exasperated, post. I was deeply anguished at myself for allowing such a sloppy performance. I do, however, know that I shouldn't be putting you guys through this.
I am really sorry. Can I be forgiven? Maybe I shouldn't be in H&S _________________
In regard to Raven's situation I think a compromise can certainly be reached? As you said Raven is very powerful and you feel that he would be able to sense Jaren. I also understand that Jaren has a need to stay hidden, due to a certain storyline cooking.
We've already touched on this but perhaps Raven, master swordsman that he is, would not have the Force capabilities to sense Jaren, a Jedi masking himself, from a distance. However, if he was to be right in front of him, staring at him, Raven might sense it. Perhaps for the time being Raven could sense something but not necessarily a tangible presence.
That is, until they meet face to face. Obviously Jaren is yet to give his two cents and we'll certainly need that.
Kri, of course, you don't have to ask. You are more than welcome to participate in the story. I, for one, enjoy the edge the Shistavanen brings to the table. _________________
Joined: 22 Mar 2008 Posts: 59 Location: The Final Frontier
Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2008 6:34 am Post subject:
Warning: Rant ahead!
I know I have admitted I havent read any of the EU novels, but I have participated in SW RP before (in fact it was my first true rping experience) and I do know some things regarding the issue of how powerful a Jedi is, because we did have many problems with people powerplaying and people loving to play powerful Jedi. Its a fact, really; already this board has two people who outrightly state "My Jedi is one of the most POWERFUL in existence!" I mean, we have Venom who has an ENTIRE LIST full of abilities to show off to us. I have read that you state that you rp for the fighting scenes.
Fighting scenes?
You know, I'm a guy, and I love fights. I admit it. I love watching UFC. But, seriously, if youre only rping for the "fighting" scenes, then, I dont know, play a video game? Rping is alot more than just fighting. Alot of it is the dynamics and building of relationships between characters. And mind me, I love playing a powerful Jedi too - eventually Jaren is probably going to get quite powerful, hes going to HAVE to, not only for the board but simply because the plot is gonna need a powerful Light Jedi to stand up to Venom, which will most likely be him - but really, do you see me owning everything I see?
And honestly, I dont mind seeing my character get his ass whooped time to time. But if youre gonna run around and pwn everything you see, then that is SERIOUSLY gonna piss me off. One thing that pisses me off is absolute invincible characters, especially Jedi. The only character that truly should have some measure of invincibility is the main Sith Lord bad guy. Why? Because hes the BAD GUY. If the bad guy is not the most powerful being, then why fear him? You automatically deteriorate his power and the storyline's tension crumbles. See why I wanted a moderate Luke?
That being said....
The thing is Raven, if you are a Dark Jedi, no matter how powerful you are in the Force, hes going to lack some sort of discipline, the same way Jaren does, as I explicitly state that Jaren is "losing his touch." Running around pretending not to be a Jedi is getting to him. I dont know about Raven, but even if Raven is running around showing off his fancy Force powers to everyone he sees - which is a REALLY, REALLY DUMB move cause he'll have Luke on his ass - he'll still probably neglect developing his Force powers and they will degenerate a little bit, whether you like it or not. Raven has no real incentive to train, there is nothing really life threatening in his life, right? Training solo is very difficult, and only in extreme circumstances should a lone Jedi have the discipline to truly advance his skills without any outside help. (For example Luke in classic trilogy). Since there is no real threat in Raven's life, I would expect Raven to deteriorate in his abilities anyway, if just a little bit.
Raven, I'm gonna have to be blunt, but - tone him down a little bit. Please. Im not asking for him to become a "common" Jedi (God forbid!) but not one of the most powerful in the Galaxy. I just cant find it believable that Raven, who hasnt even trained under Luke, is suddenly one of the most powerful Jedi in the galaxy. At least have him, lets say "progress" to become more powerful, like what Im doing with Jaren. Considering that this is 14 ABY I cant really see him falling down the ladder too much since there are only a handful of Jedi running around at the moment. So I would say bump him down from the top three to, lets say, the top 10? (That isnt too bad is it...you figure there are what, 60 or so total Jedi running around in the Galaxy, so hed be in the top 20%. Not too shabby eh?)
So, again, I'm gonna be blunt: Venom, since hes our big bad Sith bad guy, HAS to be the most powerful in the galaxy. He fought in the clone wars. He is WAY older than Raven OR Luke. He has much more experience. And that counts for alot in SW.Luke Skywalker is number 2.
It makes sense. If there was a dispute about something like this on my older forums, we would look at the skill of the writer and the application they have submitted. Venom submitted an e much more thorough application than Raven. Granted, half of it was details on the whole LIST of his Force Powers, but it still was more thorough.
Now before you get upset at me, why is there a method to his madness? Simply because people who tend to spend more time on their apps tend to powerplay less because they are interested more in writing then they are in playing Mr. Super Jedi. Please dont take this personally Raven, but I had to assess this and speak my mind. When playing with other people, you have to take into account that your character cant always be the most powerful Jedi there is. But hell, heh, We should be thankful we could even play a Jedi on here. Places like the Gungan Council require the actual roleplayer to go through "training" missions, and some boards restrict the number of Jedi completely. So thank your apples Tylana isnt so strict on those measures.
Thats why you see on advanced writing boards long winded posts, with, guess what, little action. Even some of the most powerful Jedi roleplayers are quite conservative in their characters' actions, because most of them dont want to powerplay. Plus the effect of one powerful Force move speaks SO much more then lets say, a Sith Lord running around choking everyone. The rarer you do something, the more of an impact it has. Of course, those advanced writing boards can also have long posting requirements and a couple snobs, but hey, thats why I'm here
Bah, upset? Negatory my friend you are just speaking your mind but I will counter with my point of view.
I was thorough in my biography but not with my skills, that was a mistake which I will edit to stop confusion. My biography was much more thorough than Venoms but he just emphasized his skills differently than I did. I did it via bio.
On another note, Raven is much older than Venom. Raven is thirty while Venom is only 21. Raven was a Jedi from a very young age while Venom was not. He has been practicing with his lightsaber since he was a child and it has been his passion forever.
Now do not get me wrong, I said I like the fight scenes. That is not all I roleplay for my main man. I just enjoy them, they are my favorite. Just because I enjoy them does not mean they are the only thing I like? Besides thats never what I said, I said I love them. So why is that all I am in for?
Venom's bio is set in a different time period than mine was, the new storyline has that a bit screwed up. No one fault. I set my bio in the times of like Darth Bane and such, so yes he fought in the clone wars but there was no major war in my biography.
If it is such a problem for the whole Knight deal, I will change it. I did not think that people would get so confused by that. I try not to base my power off of rank. I hate it when someone is like "I am a Sith Lord, so I automatically beat you!1!1!" I have run into this many times in my very long career of roleplaying and I hate it very very very very very much. I will change my character though as to make him weaker, though I must say t'would be highly unfair as I was the first Dark Jedi on this site and I did have the powers before Venom did.
You are basing strength of off his title. His self proclaimed title of Sith lord. Boo! Thats not fair to the other people on this site. I know I am going EU here but Bane was only an apprentice to the others when he pretty much single handedly took down the brotherhood of darkness.
So all I am asking is do not look at my rank but my other skills. His 20+years or lightsaber training and service to the Jedi, does that mean nothing now? Venom is more powerful than my character because he proclaimed himself Dark Lord of the Sith? I could easily proclaim myself Sith Lord, but my character has no interest in the titles and therefore neither do I.
Point across. Rebuttle? _________________ Raven Dark Jedi Knight
Joined: 22 Mar 2008 Posts: 59 Location: The Final Frontier
Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2008 3:48 pm Post subject:
I hate to say this but the title means alot. Im not really talking about Padawans or Knights but the title of "Lord of the Sith" HAS to mean alot. Its supposed to instill fear. Dominance. It takes quite a bit to rise to become a Sith Lord and a Jedi Grand master, so titles mean a bit. You have to surpass all of those who stand in your path. So your'e telling me some lone Dark Jedi is more powerful than a Sith Lord? I dont buy that. There is a reason why there is so much emphasis on titles, because essentially they really really hard to get.
When I read your profile it said Raven's age was 24; not 30. Hmmm....
I cant really say much about Venom's past. Thats what it says in his bio. Perhaps he has to change it according to board change, I'm not totally sure. Actually, I say, keep it. He should have some years behind him if hes the Sith Lord, it only makes sense. You are wrong about Raven's service to the Jedi - it says in your profile that Raven was 12 when he first saw the city. So Raven only spent 8 years of his life training in the Jedi Academy, not 20. (Dont go editing this part in your profile on me too, now )Raven left the Jedi at what we assume to be twenty years old, so he has been wandering ten years. Ten. Years. Youre telling me throughout those ten years Raven has not deteriorated in his skills at all?
Nah uh. Not gonna buy that. Raven has had to have deteriorated in something. Hes basically a wanderer and I only see him using the Force for his own recreational purposes only, which, lets face it...not many challenging opponents out there besides Venom. I know, god forbid, I'm asking you to tone him down just slightly...
I cant really defend Venom anymore in here, and I cant say much more else. Theres a large contradiction here if Raven can best Venom in lightsaber combat. Venom agreed to be our big bad guy and I dont see much "big bad" in him if some Dark Jedi bests him in that area. Remember, most Lords of the Sith even when older were still excellent in lightsaber combat because of their mastery of the Force.
Yes, Bane did take down the entire brotherhood, but hes a legendary Sith lord. Now your'e comparing Raven to Bane? Give me a break. You are catapulting Raven up to legendary status and that is ridiculous.
Ultimately this is Tylana's decision. Venom is supposed to be, for the overall plot of the board, our Dark Lord of the Sith and, I assume, our big bad guy? If that is so, then I can see him having a sort of "legendary" power status. However, Raven is not really apart of the boards overall plot, and therefore, a legendary power status is not needed for him at all. Tylana is our admin and she should be the one who decides who gets to play super Jedi. In my opinion, powers given to Raven that equal a Jedi Master status is perfectly fine, but something more than that is ridiculous and unnecessary, and undermines the plot.
Raven wrote:
I will change my character though as to make him weaker, though I must say t'would be highly unfair as I was the first Dark Jedi on this site and I did have the powers before Venom did.
Whoa, what?
Just because you were one of the first to apply to the board doesnt give you the right to run around with the best Jedi lightsaber combatent ever. I think that is unfair to all Jedi on this board, not just Venom. Being the first to apply and getting the *best* Jedi is the thing that is unfair, if anything. At least give us some leeway and make it contested...giving Raven absolute lightsaber mastery is ridiculous IMHO.
I was hoping this matter could have been sorted between you and that I wouldn't have to take a heavy handed stance. These are, after all, YOUR characters, and nobody really has the right to tell you how to write or play them. Unless someone is in breach of the rules, which nobody is as far as I can see. However there are a few issues raised here that I need to clarify.
As far as I am concerned Venom is the board's Sith Lord, and therefore the title of "Big Bad" is given to him. And to be honest, even this much unnerves me. I have seen similar situations on other boards I both moderated and RPed on, and when it comes down to it these type of discussions are typically male, and "my balls are bigger than yours" in nature. Leave the egos at the door and be willing to give an inch or two.
There is a reason why I have only played TWO Force adept characters in my 11 years of Star Wars role-play. My first ever character was a Sith, and I was 13 when I created her (as far as I'm concerned the affinity the younger RPers have toward Sith characters is half the problem). As Jaren has pointed out SWE is quite rare in its lenient approach to character application. On most boards, with a timeline like our own, Jedi and Dark Jedi characters like the ones we have here would simply not be accepted. 1. Their existence would just not make sense, they would not have survived the Purge, and if they had it would have to be a damn good explanation. 2. In most cases you have to provide a link to a previous RP where you show your character being trained and/or using the Force, so the Moderators can see for themselves how well (or not) you write. I am not saying this will ever happen here, but due to my anxiety regarding the growing number of KOTOR obsessed adolescents churning out Gary Stus by the freighter load and gifting them with UBER SITH INVINCIBILITIES, I will certainly be tightening the reigns and will not be allowing any other characters that will be throwing this place any further off balance.
This brings me nicely to my next point. Jaren I totally understand the concept of giving the more experienced role-player or better writer the more powerful positions. This however, is not what occurred. Venom's application impressed me, and as you pointed out it was very thorough and very detailed, and because we had not seen the like of it up to that point I had no problem accepting it. Venom does not play this character because I feel he is the most qualified to do so. If this was the case I myself would be taking the role of Big Bad, or another member of the board I felt had the relevant experience. If I was to go down this path of dictating who should play what of importance then the members I have would not currently be here, as it is in direct violation of the idea of SWE and the rules. We are open to all standards of RP and writing here. After all, everyone has to start somewhere.
As for the timeline throwing certain characters off track, this is fairly irrelevant to the plot of H&S. If the timeline semantics are to be argued I suggest it be done elsewhere. If any individual has a problem with changing their character to suit the change I suggest they get in touch with me directly so the details can be discussed, because complaining about it to others is not conducive to good role-play or atmosphere, and it doesn't really get anyone anywhere. This is not directed at any one person. I feel the urge to make this particular issue as clear as possible for the future.
Now with all of that aside, on to the matter at hand. I think Raven's main issue is that his character is perceived as weak. Which is far from the truth. He is obviously a very talented and skilled Dark Jedi, and I don't think that can be disputed. I realise that while he has absolutely no desire to challenge anyone for title, or become Dark Lord of the Sith, I do think that having him of equal ability to one who holds such a title is slightly unrealistic. While Sith Lords can threaten the galaxy and a society's way of life, Dark Jedi are very rarely any more than a thorn in the side of the Jedi Masters. This common opinion should help us keep things in perspective.
It is very important for Jaren as a character, and for his future storyline, that he remain hidden from other Force users. I do not see the need for Raven to appear more powerful than Jaren being greater than Jaren's need for privacy. Raven stands to lose a lot less than Jaren in this story. I'm sure everyone can appreciate this. It is only a very slight detail when you think about it, only a small omission on the part of Raven. It would not be fair of me to ask Jaren to accept the fact that he can be sensed by Dark Jedi considering it would totally contradict all of his future plans. _________________
Ladies and gentlemen, I would ask you kindly to please not feed the forum troll. I've seen and dealt with this type of vermin before in my previous travels. His insatiable appetite for attention distinguishes not between insults, compliments, chastisements, and criticism. Supplying any of these to the forum troll's regular diet will result in uncontrollable prevalence and annoyance level. Nothing to see here, folks. You can go about your business. Move along.
Bah, now your attacking me and all I did was try and prove my point. *sad face* But, the whole Jedi service thing, my bad I have him mixed up with other boards. I play him on many boards. Sorry for the confusion, and no he was not 24 O.o....
Raven has flaws, of course. His ability to use the force is very very horrible. I mean a Sith on Knight level could probably easily outdo him with the force, his strengths rely in his lightsaber combat.
I really don't want to get into argument over this. You want to turn this into a fight, I was just trying to make it a discussion. I have been doing this for awhile so don't tell me your not. You want to prove me wrong so you can say "Yeah, told you so!" if you weren't, you would not have taken the time to read my bio and search for errors.
Sorry, I made a mistake thinking he was in the Jedi for longer. I really am on a few other sites with this character and I even sometimes confuse my characters. I admit that and I am sorry.
He does not have absolute lightsaber mastery?? He has only mastered like 3 forms and is a practitioner in a few others. If I am wrong on the numbers, my bad.
Also, I wasn't comparing him to Bane. If you knew me then you would know that I think Bane= the Greatest Sith of all time that no one could ever match. I always use references to him because I love him so much. Again sorry for... confusing you? I dunno...
I just don't want this to be some stupid argument because I like this board. Fine, I will say that Raven is mediocre in his skills since he is so low on the boards overall plot level. Excuse me for thinking that someone who could challenge the Dark Lord of the Sith could be in the plot, I will make sure and shut down my idea next time, just for you.
Yeah, that sounded like an argument type thing but that just really kinda upsets me that you would say my character is not a major role. I mean every character is and that kinda defeats the point of me being here. All I did was try and state my side of the argument and BAM you are just belittiling me and trying to prove me wrong in such a rude way. Ok, I made a mistake. Why rub it in to me and upset me?
I am not mad but kinda upset that a fellow board member would be so quick to try and put me down instead of nicely trying to resolve things. I will tone down my character, sure. I have no problem with that, but why would you want to be so rude about it man? Why couldn't you just be nice about it.
Sorry I am just not in a good mood. Me and my girlfriend split up and I am just really emotional. I usually wouldn't freak out over internet stuff but I am just looking for excuses to get upset. It is kinda funny because I know my tone has changed like three times during the course of this post.
Really I just keep on writing because I am lonely right now and it makes me feel better.
Ok, off topic back on.
I will stop saying my character is powerful with the lightsaber. I will just try and prove it via roleplay, because after all its not about your bio but your skills when it comes to writing.
But to Jaren, man next time can't you be a little bit nicer to me about it instead of trying to just bring me down and understand that people make mistakes and you don't always have to go on a quest to prove them wrong and in the end hurt their feelings. _________________ Raven Dark Jedi Knight
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)Raven left the Jedi at what we assume to be twenty years old, so he has been wandering ten years. Ten. Years. Youre telling me throughout those ten years Raven has not deteriorated in his skills at all?
